You are reading the archive for the category: Destreza (Spanish swordplay)
Filed as Destreza (Spanish swordplay), Fencing, Historical Fencing with 1 reply
Choose a blade no more than 41.1 inches from cross to tip.
According to the canonical authors, the length of the weapon should be no longer than 5/4 vara. That’s an upper limit just a bit over 41 inches.
Philip II’s Law on Blade Length
What happens when you exceed that limit? You are sent to prison by order of
King Philip II on the first offense and exiled for a year on the second offense.
Philip II
Philip II in 1564 (translated by Mary Curtis):
| That we are informed that in the said cities, villages, and places some swords, verdugos and estocs are carried of more than six and seven and eight palms and from there above in length, from which cause many inconveniences and deaths of men have resulted and continue to result, and wanting to provide a remedy to this, discussed in our council and with us consulted, it was agreed that we should order this our letter to be issued for you for the stated reason, and we considered it as good. Because of this, we order and command that now and from here forward, after fifteen days counted from the day of the publication of this our letter, no one of whatever quality and condition that he might be should dare to carry nor will carry the said swords, verdugos nor estocs of greater than five fourths of vara of blade in length, under penalty that he who carries it falls and incurs for the first time in penalty of ten ducats and ten days in jail and loss of that estoc, verdugo, or sword, and for the second the penalty is doubled and one year of exile from the city, village, or place where he is taken and was neighbor… |
Pacheco de Narváez’s Preference on Blade Length
Pacheco de Narvaez
Later, Luis Pacheco de Narváez directly cites Philip’s law in his books.
Pacheco de Narváez New Science p. 250 (translated by Mary Curtis) tells us this:
| From these and other injuries our King and Lord Philip, Second in name and First in religion and prudence (whose happy memory in these glorious attributes will live in the most extended posterity of men), wanted to free them, justly and compassionately, with paternal love prohibiting under precept and force of law that any of his vassals carry sword, verdugo or estoc, of more blade than five fourths of vara, superior reason he achieved for this establishment, and if it were as justifiable for us to investigate it, as the obligation of obeying it, we would dare to say, that knowing for the organization, symmetry, and composure of the man (leaving the extremes of high and low) that his common stature is two varas in length, like he also has them from the extreme of one hand to the other, the arms open, and that in this all natural is in potential and diffuse action the strength of the parts that constitute him, unless the ones to the others their similar ones, they can communicate what they receive, and that from the left shoulder to the extremity of the right hand there are five fourths, he wanted for universal good that the swords were of this length, knowing that if they exceeded this, it would not be powerful the vigor sent to move them with the suitable quickness; and thus this very wise Prince looked for a proportion so proportionate that one will not find another more proportionate. |
In the seventeenth century, Pacheco de Narváez echoes the sentiments of Philip II in recommending a blade no more than 5/4 varas.
Pacheco de Narvaez’s Opinions on Longer Blades
Knowing that Pacheco de Narváez advocates a blade no longer than 5/4 vara, does he consider it important? If you use a longer weapon against someone using a proper sword, it offends Pacheco de Narváez, and he has some harsh things to say.
Pacehco de Narváez’s New Science p.248-249 (translated by Mary Curtis)
| The affection of our desire will remain offended and with just reason upset if we lose the opportunity of attempting the inconvenient reform of an ancient error introduced in men, about whom without exceeding the limits of modesty one can speak with all contempt, and in others, that all the terms that human courtesy have discovered do not equal its quality and merits. This is the exorbitant excess in the quantity and length of the swords, so much that changing the gender from feminine to masculine, requires it to be called estoc, or with a word of less nobility verdugo, from the problems that are offered, some are related to and offend the reputation and others offer manifest dangers. Firstly, it is known that no one ever spoke with venerable respect nor did the valor remain very esteemed of he who with advantageous weapons attacked his opponent in a forewarned or casual fight. From the fifth generation passes his memory and easy cause provokes, so that in absence or present they give him in the face with the ugliness of this injury. The greatest friend fails to rise in his defense and with honorable respects is ashamed to promote his credit. He who is not a friend speaks with indignity and discourtesy, and the neutral person is inclined toward kindness and compassion for he who suffered with the unequal instrument, without placing the misfortune of the case to the charge of not knowing. If the cause is deduced to judgment, the right makes the guilt worse and with just indignation increases the sentence and punishment, and in taking this into account, competing with time and forgetfulness endures this new word – fraud, disparaging insult with which the people discredit the one who with effeminate spirit does not dare to confront another man without the advantageous disparity that the estoc has in length over the sword. With similar events it comes to mind and renews resentment, and those who deserve praise detest and condemn it again…” |
To summarize, blades longer than 5/4 vara:
- Are offensive, immodest, excessive, and contemptible.
- Will damage your own reputation by decreasing the perception of your valor for 5 generations.
- Cause friends to be too ashamed to speak on your behalf, enemies to disparage you, and neutral parties to favor your adversary.
- In losing, having chosen a longer weapon will cause your guilt to be worsened and the sentence and punishment is increased (judicially speaking).
- Cause you to be viewed as effeminate for not confronting your adversary on equal terms.
- Are regarded by the the people who are praiseworthy as detestable, and they condemn it.
He also goes on about how shorter blades and lighter blades are better for reacting to the adversary and more macho. Practically speaking, the blade should be able to deliver powerful cuts but still be light enough to change direction quickly.
My own opinion is that in an engagement of the weapons, it is useful to be able to cross and uncross your arms as well. To see what I mean carry your sword over your left arm and then grab a friend’s doublet with your left hand. Uncross your arms to bring your point in line with your friend’s chest. This is easier when the blade is shorter and a sidesword fills the role nicely.
Other Authors
Sword from Carranza's Text
The weapon images in the texts of Carranza (1569) and Pacheco de Narváez (1600 – approx. 1630s) show us swords that look different from the long slender rapiers in Thibault. At least in the time period of Carranza and possibly Pacheco de Narváez as well “Spanish rapier” isn’t a precise description of what I would personally consider an edge sword or side sword if you prefer.
Swords from Pacheco de Narvaez’s Text
Even as late as Francisco Lórenz de Rada’s work in the late 1600s and early 1700s, 5/4 vara is the maximum length. That being said, Girard Thibault‘s work is outside the Spanish canon so if you are interested primarily in Thibault, exceeding 5/4 vara might be acceptable.
Science versus Specific Tradition
Destreza theory is a science which can describe all types of martial arts. The Spanish tradition of swordplay is what is most often described with this science. We must not confuse the science with the specific practice of the art. Pacheco de Narváez and Carranza practice the Spanish tradition, and we can describe this with Destreza fencing theory, but that science is also used as a tool for analyzing Italian fencing and other forms as well.
While Pacheco de Narváez and the other authors recommend a sword of 5/4 vara or less for the martial tradition, Destreza doesn’t recognize a limit on weapon size from the perspective of the science. The montante and other weapons will obviously surpass this value, and Destreza still applies.
Filed as Classical Fencing, Destreza (Spanish swordplay), Fencing, General, Historical Fencing with no replies
When a classical instructor from my tradition introduces new techniques each fencing action is taught individually with a focus on form, distance, and timing. Too much emphasis on individual actions can create fencers without depth or the ability to react tactically within the moment.
One of the teaching methods used later in the process is the building of extended phrases of actions to challenge the student. The instructor continually pushes the student with progressively more difficult actions executed in situations more like actual fencing.
By creating an extended sequence, the student is asked to perform at a higher level. Form, Distance, and Timing are still critical and actions executed in extended phrases help to prepare the student for the rigors of the bout.
The 5 Spanish Attacks
- Thrust
- Half Cut
- Half Reverse
- Circular Cut
- Circular Reverse
(For more on the Spanish Attacks read Mary’s Ettenhard Translation )
Our students have been working on these attacks in different situations for the past 9 weeks. At times a focus on technique can feel scripted. While important, technique building work (like repeated lunges in the Italian tradition) may not reflect the action-reaction dynamic that occurs in actual fencing.
By developing a sequence of actions, we provided the students with a glimpse of how a fight could progress and gave some sword-in-hand insight into different choices that could be made in the phrase based on the adversary’s action.
“If he does this, you can respond with this.”
“If he does this instead, consider this response.“
Asking your fencers to consider different tactical options and to think critically about fencing theory in actual practice will create better fencers. Learning to read and adapt to your adversary is one skill that requires attention and practice. There is no substitute in a sword fight for good problem solving skills!
Creating an Extended Phrase
My goal was to include each Spanish attack once during the different mutations of the phrase.
A Guide to My Fencing Notation
Each action is notated once in sentence form as I would call it in a lesson. Then I briefly notate the action again by Movements which is a more Spanish approach. The Spanish notation provides us information about time as well.
Example:
“X. Sentence describing some fencing action…”
- Movement 1 – do this
- Movement 2 – do that
HINT: Count the Movements and you are also counting the tempo. Spanish notation is fairly sophisticated in its ability to simultaneously describe an action and the timing. In Pacheco’s work he often notates an Italian action and then breaks down his tactical responses movement-by-movement. Compare this method to the Bolognese example of notating from starting guard through motion to final guard and you will see a similar idea.
If the notation or jargon looks intimidating, consider peeking at my previous articles to help decode the action.
If there is some interest in this particular phrase, I will do what I can to post a series of videos showing how they can be executed.
The Lesson
Note: All lessons begin and end with a formal salute.
This lesson was performed by pairs of students alternating roles. As the sequence progresses the instructor (the fencer receiving the touch) either invites to initiate the action or responds to the student’s invitation.
Understand the difference between skill-building and fencing
This lesson includes some unrealistic actions. The most heinous example is the initial invitation that removes the point from the line of the diameter. This would be expressly condemned in the Spanish texts because the movement serves no purpose but to create an avenue for the adversary’s attack.
As an instructor, I might use this offline motion as an in-time cue (a motion cue) intended to immediately provoke the student’s attack.
Example: Thrust executed in time
In time as the instructor invites on the outside line, thrust to the chest with a transverse step to the left.
- Movement 1 – Instructor invites with an offline movement left (fingernails up). Student thrusts with a transverse step left.
As the instructor, I certainly want my student to capitalize on a movement of this kind. In this case, we are using the 1-movement thrust. In the lesson below, I use the 2-movement half reverse instead.
On the student’s side it is perfectly reasonable to assume that at some point during a bout, the adversary might deviate your weapon from the line of the diameter (perhaps with a beat). Knowing how to respond when your point has been deviated from the line is valid training and creating this initial disadvantage provides us with a key training opportunity for placing an atajo over the incoming attack.
I should also point out that the thrust has fewer movements (1) than the other attacks (2-3). In the sequence below, there are numerous instances when a thrust would be a faster response than the various cuts. Again, the intention is to force the student to execute certain technical actions like the cutting attacks and placing an atajo under stress.
Thrust (Line in Cross)
1. From the student’s atajo on the outside line, thrust along the diametric to the chest with a curved step right.
- Movement 1 – Student executes a thrust with a forward movement and a curved step right.
Half Reverse
2. From the instructor’s invitation on the outside line, half reverse to the outside cheek with a curved step to the right.
- Movement 1 – Instructor invites with an offline movement left (fingernails up). Student chambers the half reverse with an offline movement left.
- Movement 2 – Student delivers the half reverse with an aligning movement and a curved step right.
Half Reverse & Thrust (Line in Cross)
3. From the student’s invitation on the outside line, the instructor executes a half reverse to the outside cheek with a curved step to the right which the student intercepts with an atajo on the outside line followed by a thrust along the diametric to the chest with a curved step right.
- Movement 1 – Student invites with an offline movement left (fingernails up). Instructor chambers the half reverse with an offline movement left.
- Movement 2 – Instructor delivers the half reverse with an aligning movement and a curved step right which the student intercepts with an atajo on the outside line.
- Movement 3 – Student executes a thrust with a forward movement and a curved step right.
Half Reverse & Half Cut
4. From the student’s invitation on the outside line, the instructor executes a half reverse to the outside cheek with a curved step to the right which the student intercepts with an atajo on the outside line followed with a half cut to the inside cheek and a transverse step left.
- Movement 1 – Student invites with an offline movement left (fingernails up). Instructor chambers the half reverse with an offline movement left.
- Movement 2 – Instructor delivers the half reverse with an aligning movement and a curved step right which the student intercepts with an atajo on the outside line.
- Movement 3 – Student executes a half cut with an aligning movement and a transverse step left.
Half Reverse & Circular Cut
5. From the student’s invitation on the outside line, the instructor executes a half reverse to the outside cheek with a curved step to the right which the student intercepts with an atajo on the outside line. In response the instructor seeks to increase degrees of strength in the engagement with a movement of increase and attempts to gain an atajo on their own outside line. The student eludes the movement of increase with a circular cut to the inside cheek with a curved step to the right.
- Movement 1 – Student invites with an offline movement left (fingernails up). Instructor chambers the half reverse with an offline movement left.
- Movement 2 – Instructor delivers the half reverse with an aligning movement and a curved step right which the student intercepts with an atajo on the outside line.
- Movement 3 – Instructor uses a mixed violent and aligning lateral movement in an attempt to execute a movement of increase and place an atajo on his own outside line. In response the student executes an offline movement left to escape the engagement.
- Movement 4 – Student chambers the circular cut with a violent movement.
- Movement 5 – Student delivers the circular cut with a natural movement with a curved step right.
(Movements 3 & 4 may be combined into a mixed movement offline and violent to elude the engagement and chamber the circular cut simultaneously.)
Half Reverse, Circular Cut, & Half Reverse
6. From the instructor’s invitation on the outside line, the student executes a half reverse to the outside cheek with a curved step to the right which the instructor intercepts with an atajo on the outside line. In response the student seeks to increase degrees of strength in the engagement with a movement of increase and attempts to gain an atajo on their own outside line. The instructor eludes the movement of increase with a circular cut to the inside cheek and curved step to the right. The student intercepts the circular cut with an atajo on the inside line and executes a half reverse to the outside cheek with a curved step to the right.
- Movement 1 – Instructor invites with an offline movement left (fingernails up). Student chambers the half reverse with an offline movement left.
- Movement 2 – Student delivers the half reverse with an aligning movement and a curved step right which the instructor intercepts with an atajo on the outside line.
- Movement 3 – Student uses a mixed violent and aligning lateral movement in an attempt to execute a movement of increase and place an atajo on his own outside line. In response the instructor executes an offline movement left to escape the engagement.
- Movement 4 – Instructor chambers the circular cut with a violent movement.
- Movement 5 – Instructor delivers the circular cut with a natural movement and a curved step right which the student intercepts with an atajo on the inside line.
- Movement 6 – Student uses an aligning lateral to deliver a half reverse with a curved step right.
(Movements 3 & 4 may be combined into a mixed movement offline and violent to elude the engagement and chamber the circular cut simultaneously.)
Half Reverse, Circular Cut, & Circular Reverse
7. From the instructor’s invitation on the outside line, the student executes a half reverse to the outside cheek with a curved step to the right which the instructor intercepts with an atajo on the outside line. In response the student seeks to increase degrees of strength in the engagement with a movement of increase and attempts to gain an atajo on their own outside line. The instructor eludes the movement of increase with a circular cut to the inside cheek with a curved step to the right. The student intercepts the circular cut with an atajo on the inside line. The instructor responds with a movement of increase attempting to place an atajo on their own inside line and the student responds with a circular reverse to the outside cheek with a transverse left or a circular step left depending on the distance.
- Movement 1 – Instructor invites with an offline movement left (fingernails up). Student chambers the half reverse with an offline movement left.
- Movement 2 – Student delivers the half reverse with an aligning movement and a curved step right which the instructor intercepts with an atajo on the outside line.
- Movement 3 – Student uses a mixed violent and aligning lateral movement in an attempt to execute a movement of increase and place an atajo on his own outside line. In response the instructor executes an offline movement left to escape the engagement.
- Movement 4 – Instructor chambers the circular cut with a violent movement.
- Movement 5 – Instructor delivers the circular cut with a natural movement and a curved step right which the student intercepts with an atajo on the inside line.
- Movement 6 – Instructor uses a violent and aligning lateral movement in an attempt to execute a movement of increase and place an atajo on his own inside line. In response the student executes an offline movement right to escape the engagement.
- Movement 7 – Student chambers the circular reverse with a violent movement.
- Movement 8 – Student delivers the circular reverse with a natural movement while stepping transverse left or curved left depending on the distance.
(Movements 3 & 4 may be combined into a mixed movement offline and violent to elude the engagement and chamber the circular cut simultaneously.)
(Movements 6 & 7 may be combined into a mixed movement offline and violent to elude the engagement and chamber the circular reverse simultaneously.)
Filed as Classical Fencing, Destreza (Spanish swordplay), Fencing, General, Historical Fencing, Italian Rapier with no replies
My lovely wife is pregnant with twins and the first trimester officially ends on Thursday, February 25, 2010. Of course, you want to see the pictures and I won’t deny you.
Baby Pictures
Here is the latest Ultrasound from this last Thursday:
Our twins at Week 11. (Click for High Resolution.)
Things seemed to be going fine with the Ultrasound when the doctor noticed some strange behavior.
Twin A turned to face Twin B so as to minimize his profile.
Fortunately, I was there and was able to interpret what was happening inside Mary’s tummy.
From Twin A's invitation in 4th, Twin B attempted to find the sword on the outside line in 3rd with his hand in 2nd. Twin A, executed a cavazione di tempo, but executed it as a feint. Twin B counterattacked in 4th only to be parried by Twin A in 4th who responded with a riversa to the outside cheek. Twin B eluded the cut to the outside cheek by lifting his hilt into Italian sabre parry of 7th and then in a sudden transition Twin B attempted to pass and seize the off hand of Twin A with a Spanish Movement of Conclusion. Perfectly in synch with Ettenhard's theory, Twin A eluded the circular footwork with circular footwork of his own and the phrase ended.
Seriously Now…
When Mary and I got back from Spain, we got our lives back into a semblance of order and then gave it our best shot. We got pregnant almost immediately and had a bit of a scare at 7 weeks when we thought we were out of the game for awhile.
We were scheduled for an emergency ultrasound and that’s when we discovered not only was Mary still pregnant, but that there were two little hearts beating in there. We’re incredibly happy and things are going very well for us now.
Because of the earlier scare, we have been keeping this quiet but with the first trimester ending next week we’re lifting the veil of secrecy. My blog has been remarkably quiet of late and that’s because a good deal of our effort has been consolidated into writing up our experiences as we go through the pregnancy on Mary’s blog. Until today, these entries have been password protected with only immediate family having access.
The due date for a typical pregnancy would be about September 9, 2010. With our twin pregnancy, we expect the twins to arrive sooner, sometime in mid August.
Mary’s Baby Blog
We’ve been blogging about the whole thing since we found out and you can read about it here:
If you want to read all the posts (which is not required by any stretch of the imagination), start on January 1, and use the calendar on the right to select the different dates.
We’re having a wonderful time working our way through the process.
Filed as Classical Fencing, Destreza (Spanish swordplay), Fencing, Historical Fencing, Italian Rapier, Opinion with no replies
Fencers? Cocky? Never!
William provides Italian sabre feedback at WMAW 2009
I recently witnessed an Internet discussion on fencing that rapidly degenerated into bad blood. Using my best sarcastic voice, I hereby state, “It may surprise the world to learn that fencers are notoriously cocky and prone to confrontation.”
Any fencing teacher can watch a fencing match and provide valid criticism and feedback. Regardless of the quality of the fencing in question, how your criticism is delivered tells the world what kind of person you are. More specifically, they get a window into how you might treat your own student.
If your goal is to humiliate and punish the student you are certainly welcome to say whatever you like, but I have a three-point system for delivering feedback based on my experiences training for the fencing master’s program.
Puck’s 3 Rules for Corrective Feedback
- Precise – Feedback should not be vague. “Fix your arm” is not an acceptable correction from a fencing teacher. That could mean anything. You do not want the student trying to guess what they should correct. “Extend your weapon arm first during the lunge;” “In the guard create a straight line from elbow to weapon tip;” “Close the line when striking.” These are all specific corrections tightly focused on the problem.
- Concise – Nothing breaks up the tempo of a fencing lesson like veering off into an extended discussion of tangential theory. There is a place for extended discussion, but on the floor a short and precise explanation preserves the flow of the lesson. Don’t let your fencer’s legs cool off while you wax poetic about the joys of striking in countertime. Importantly, don’t lecture while the student is on guard. If you are going to provide anything more than short feedback, put them into a resting posture like first position. Don’t spend sweat and energy having your student hold a guard as you prattle when you could spend that energy on fencing actions.
- Nice – This seems obvious, but it bears repeating. Don’t be a jerk when you deliver your correction. As a fencing teacher, you are engaged in the process of creating a skilled fencer. Like any person responsible for creation there will be challenges in the process. It is a poor artist that wrecks his own canvas. There is often a natural and friendly antagonism between the fencing master and the student, but the goal of the teacher should always be to build the student and not to destroy them.
Both fencing and teaching are very rewarding. Nothing worth doing is easy all the time, but if we can take a bit of time to treat each other with respect and focus on building better fencers we will all benefit.
~P.
